Curse

vinoth · Aug 24, 2010, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

@ Mio:

Vinoth does make some valid points though, but I just cant take him serious when he says stuff such as "5-15 dmg and 20-35 on agonising" or the fact that it takes skill to win splitmaps (Forgotten) with IWAY.

Some of his posts show that he isn't completely clueless, but when you're arguing that it requires skill to win with an IWAY on a cap points map, what the hell are you doing?!

Who said i was talking about IWAY on split maps? I just gave an example about how much dmg iway wars do if they catch u on a shield set. However, I must point out, Iways game in split match can be determined in the first 1 min. Just wipe both prisms on top before iway kicks in. All u need to do is kill spirits and then use shock and use the ever so popular 3 2 1 to get some heats on and u get a dead prism. Hard? If the eles survive that phase of the game, then the story is - iway has outplayed you. Otherwise, having the + 33% ims and 25% ias is part of the build and iway has an innate advantage on that map. Comparable to unb being able to kill the ghost before killling the backline on koth.

Back on point. Even if your team wipes on top but have a snare that can successfully block ghost/rupt hex removal. You are still in the game. But since bots have been nerfed - good luck with rupts.

About the numbers i Quoted, Its not an exact science. I can assure you however the numbers are pretty damn low to tell you the opposition player is holding the right shield set.

But BBway is extemely hard to beat on that map. I guess what you could do is send your ranger top and send the ele down to block. Just play ultra defence on top and hope that your ele know how to block (theoretically you can keep the ghost blocked perma - but the blocker usually does not move with the runner so it becomes unblocked). If you do this better than the opposition, you will eventually have more shrines than them.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 25, 2010, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Prism isn't just about energy management, it's that immunity to spikes what makes the build strong... if you can't spike out backline then there's no point playing against it unless your run some gimmick like iway or hexway

Killed u man · Aug 25, 2010, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Stay alive skills have never been good for the game. This was blatantly obvious in the Hero Battles format where every monk abused some kind of stay alive skill.

In GvG, Balanced Stance and Disciplined stance are the bane for any warrior, solely because they can be activate at any time, are so cheap, and provide conditionless immunity.

However, in GvG, they are a necessary evil because over the years, damage kept getting buffed, wheres healing recieved buffs too, but in a much small scale. (Current WoH is only a bit better than the old one, and RC has been the same since prophecies)

If it were up to me every instant activation skill which provides you, essentially, immunity would go.

But if you want a quick patch fix, you can always make it so prism only prevents damage when not kd'd. So eating a bull's, or getting pwned by a hammer or shock would have no effect, and would have bad prisms think twice about using the skill...

Rolain · Aug 25, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Briefly getting back to what I was talking about. The fact that there are all of these gayways, i.e. WoTA sins, BBways and crap like that forming all the time in HA means that Anet has lost touch with the community (again). The fact that they can´t work out how to balance mesmers and need 3 updates after the initial change means that they don´t know how the game is played, i.e. don´t play it themselves.

Rolain · Aug 25, 2010, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Stay alive skills have never been good for the game. This was blatantly obvious in the Hero Battles format where every monk abused some kind of stay alive skill.

In GvG, Balanced Stance and Disciplined stance are the bane for any warrior, solely because they can be activate at any time, are so cheap, and provide conditionless immunity.

However, in GvG, they are a necessary evil because over the years, damage kept getting buffed, wheres healing recieved buffs too, but in a much small scale. (Current WoH is only a bit better than the old one, and RC has been the same since prophecies)

If it were up to me every instant activation skill which provides you, essentially, immunity would go.

But if you want a quick patch fix, you can always make it so prism only prevents damage when not kd'd. So eating a bull's, or getting pwned by a hammer or shock would have no effect, and would have bad prisms think twice about using the skill...

Prisms would not be used if the damage invulnerability was conditional. You´d just see a massive switch to full rit backlines.

axe · Aug 25, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolain

Briefly getting back to what I was talking about. The fact that there are all of these gayways, i.e. WoTA sins, BBways and crap like that forming all the time in HA means that Anet has lost touch with the community (again). The fact that they can´t work out how to balance mesmers and need 3 updates after the initial change means that they don´t know how the game is played, i.e. don´t play it themselves.

The fact that these gayways existed over the entire course of the game and could be farmed by actual good players, is why they still exist today. The best meta that HA ever had was IWAY, Bloodspike, Rspike, Balance and that was during Factions.

What Anet has been doing since the start of the game is trying to balance the fun factor.

If you and Borat do not enjoy playing lameways and as he said people convince themselves that these are fun to play. You need to get in touch with who is playing and how active this game is. Back when it was actually fun to play there were many many districts and you could not enter ID1 or ID2 even on American timezones. That was when American Districts were also full on top of the ID districts.

Yes the game is 5 years old, but such builds exist to promote Pugging, which is why your observation of them "always forming" is exactly as planned.

If you want to keep crying over puggable builds that can actually succeed and hold halls, if you get your way, enjoy your truly dead game with 1 balanced team sitting idle in HoH.

Borat, you have some good points, but you are wrong when you say these builds are not fun to play, you are also wrong when you say that the lamers are the ones that ruined the format. Anet catering to balance a format that was successful is what depleted the population, lack of players = no fun.

Rolain · Aug 25, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

The fact that these gayways existed over the entire course of the game and could be farmed by actual good players, is why they still exist today. The best meta that HA ever had was IWAY, Bloodspike, Rspike, Balance and that was during Factions.

What Anet has been doing since the start of the game is trying to balance the fun factor.

If you and Borat do not enjoy playing lameways and as he said people convince themselves that these are fun to play. You need to get in touch with who is playing and how active this game is. Back when it was actually fun to play there were many many districts and you could not enter ID1 or ID2 even on American timezones. That was when American Districts were also full on top of the ID districts.

Yes the game is 5 years old, but such builds exist to promote Pugging, which is why your observation of them "always forming" is exactly as planned.

If you want to keep crying over puggable builds that can actually succeed and hold halls, if you get your way, enjoy your truly dead game with 1 balanced team sitting idle in HoH.

Borat, you have some good points, but you are wrong when you say these builds are not fun to play, you are also wrong when you say that the lamers are the ones that ruined the format. Anet catering to balance a format that was successful is what depleted the population, lack of players = no fun.

I think you may be forgetting that HA isn´t designed and wasn´t intended for walk-ins.

Krill · Aug 25, 2010, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolain

Prisms would not be used if the damage invulnerability was conditional. You´d just see a massive switch to full rit backlines.

I don't know why they didn't use them in the first place. Build has something like 9 spirits and an OoS has 11s weapon spells vs 7s on prism, better e-management and around 10-15% more healing.

Rolain · Aug 25, 2010, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

I don't know why they didn't use them in the first place. Build has something like 9 spirits and an OoS has 11s weapon spells vs 7s on prism, better e-management and around 10-15% more healing.

Eles in PvP are easier to find

Otello · Aug 26, 2010, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolain

Eles in PvP are easier to find

Prism saves you from spikes. If you are against a bbsway, and you are knocked down with a OoS, likely you are dead.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 26, 2010, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Stay alive skills have never been good for the game. This was blatantly obvious in the Hero Battles format where every monk abused some kind of stay alive skill.

Agreed here, if clicking 1 skill which can't be interrupted and you can use it any time makes you survive that really needs a nerf.

OoS rits would be pretty much terrible in bbway/sway/iway because they're just way too easy to spike out so they wouldn't have advantage against most of other builds like bbway has now. Any build with any sort of kd + fire ele would be able to easy spike out those rits so bbway would have same strenght as other builds (like old thumpway) and that's all the nerf it needs.

Bob_ftw · Aug 26, 2010, 02:23 PM // 14:23

oos rits use dark escape.. also other prism can weapon/infuse you

Otello · Aug 26, 2010, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob_ftw

oos rits use dark escape.. also other prism can weapon/infuse you

you have to drop one skill for dark escape, and also ritu are worst at healing than monks, they are slower and spirit tranfer heals for about 200 points, meanig that a prism alone can sometimes not be sufficient to stop a good spike. The true vantage to use prisms now is for prism.

Krill · Aug 26, 2010, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otello

Prism saves you from spikes. If you are against a bbsway, and you are knocked down with a OoS, likely you are dead.

Prisms in iway groups generally can save prism for spikes since the build as a whole doesn't tend to take much pressure and if QZ is up it's half recharge. In sway builds you have to spam heal pressure and cannot always save prism for a spike, and even so a hammer warrior can knock down twice so you need cover from someone else anyway.

BBsway vs BBsway is always a retarded shell game of linebacking. Weapon spells matter as well as using AoS / SoA / SB effectively. If you let the other group go strait to spiking your backline you're doing it wrong.

Edwards · Aug 26, 2010, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otello

you have to drop one skill for dark escape, and also ritu are worst at healing than monks, they are slower and spirit tranfer heals for about 200 points, meanig that a prism alone can sometimes not be sufficient to stop a good spike. The true vantage to use prisms now is for prism.

BBsway/iway can't use monks if they want to keep NR/Tranq.

diabiosx · Aug 27, 2010, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Well balanced is still god tier when in HoH. The problem is that balanced isnt good at killing when compared to other builds. The only reason why WoTA is soo strong is because they kill balance by linebacking the whole game. I wear sentinels armor and lightning shield and these guys still do a ton of damage. mesmers with their limited rupts can camp a fire SH ele, while still being able to surge the backline. Sins dont need to build up their combo so they can unload on any1 they chose to which makes weapons useless. When compared to warriors where if you unload your combo(bulls,evis,bodyblow) and halfway through it a weapon gets up, u are screwed in terms of damage. Of course it's still possible to win against WoTA builds with balanced, its just much harder.

+ I made 1k fame in just 3runs with the same people in the double fame weekend. And with just different players coming into the group as the day goes by, we made like 50fame avg per run.

Rit needs a hex remove skill in restoration and ppl will start playing balanced again imo.(end effect to resilient=lose 1hex, ::drools:

-
Going to what most ppl say about nerfing ether prism, it won't do much to any build that uses ST rit, pnh and rit backline.(opinion from a guy that dont play this type of build much)
OoS,mend body, spirit transfer, WoW, WoS, kaolai, spirit, choice of stance(discipled stance prefered).
Dont think you would need spirit light since OoS gives more energy and ST rit ensures that theres at least 1 spirit up the whole time(4spirits from ST rit, 2-3from ranger 2on backline rits), therefore you can spirit transfer for guaranteed health. Discipled stance works just as well as ether prism and has a much shorter recharge.
nerfing ether prism will most certainly kill the current iway since they need spirit light to ensure healing since spirits are so easy to shutdown against iway(3from ranger and 2from backline).

I would prefer changing the casting time for displacement and union to be 5seconds. It would make interupting the spirits easier to manage as a whole and make it mucher harder to maintain all 3spirits in the field.

- Hi, How do I stop a troll from this forum? I assume you all know who I am talking about xD. Its soo sad LOL!!

Killed u man · Aug 27, 2010, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Real rits are harder to play than prisms, but they are better. However, it would simply be the next obvious step, as weaponspells are still OP in the way that simply can't be removed, and given 40/40 sets can't be rupted. (Whenever I play balanced, they seem to get 50% faster cast all the time)

Weaponspells in general are getting abused over and over again. In these backlines, and in the frontline (Brutal). Weapon removal was needed since day1 they buffed all these weaponspells to redicilous extends, and no Anet is nerfing them one by one (Warding, Resilient) instead of just fixing the root of the problem... Buffing weaponspells is one of the worst things you could do from a balanced kind of perspective.

@ Fierce: Anyone can make big amounts of fame during double fame weekends, but that doesn't mean: A) the build is good or B) you're good. It simply means that you can farm baddies.

I was at a festival, so I wasn't able to play at all, but Nick (Aries the apocalyte as you know him, my right hand in balanced every time we beat WoOm/KeYs/...) played a SF spike and got 1K fame in under 3 hours.

If I was actually able to play, I would imagine I could have had upwards of 6-7K fame this weekend.

Balanced simply doesn't work anymore. Just because you get lucky skips to HoH, or keep facing the worst of the worst (Beating the worst bspam guild in GvG didn't mean it wasn't OP), doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the other builds, or your build is still top notch.

Once in HoH, balanced is still a strong template because of it's advantages in every playstyle (RR, KoTH and Cap Points), getting there, however, requires a large amount of luck in either hoping you skip, or you face bad teams...

diabiosx · Aug 27, 2010, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Real rits are harder to play than prisms, but they are better. However, it would simply be the next obvious step, as weaponspells are still OP in the way that simply can't be removed, and given 40/40 sets can't be rupted. (Whenever I play balanced, they seem to get 50% faster cast all the time)

Weaponspells in general are getting abused over and over again. In these backlines, and in the frontline (Brutal). Weapon removal was needed since day1 they buffed all these weaponspells to redicilous extends, and no Anet is nerfing them one by one (Warding, Resilient) instead of just fixing the root of the problem... Buffing weaponspells is one of the worst things you could do from a balanced kind of perspective.

@ Fierce: Anyone can make big amounts of fame during double fame weekends, but that doesn't mean: A) the build is good or B) you're good. It simply means that you can farm baddies.

I was at a festival, so I wasn't able to play at all, but Nick (Aries the apocalyte as you know him, my right hand in balanced every time we beat WoOm/KeYs/...) played a SF spike and got 1K fame in under 3 hours.

If I was actually able to play, I would imagine I could have had upwards of 6-7K fame this weekend.

Balanced simply doesn't work anymore. Just because you get lucky skips to HoH, or keep facing the worst of the worst (Beating the worst bspam guild in GvG didn't mean it wasn't OP), doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the other builds, or your build is still top notch.

Once in HoH, balanced is still a strong template because of it's advantages in every playstyle (RR, KoTH and Cap Points), getting there, however, requires a large amount of luck in either hoping you skip, or you face bad teams...

its clearly impossible to make 1k fame in under 3hours LOL!! any1 that makes high consecs knows that, Let's do some math to prove that this guy love to make him self sound good simply by lying.
(http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fame)
giving you the benefit of the doubt that you raped every1 in less than 2mins every match.
1-UW 3mins shortest(1min wait 1min kill 1min timer)
2-fetid 3mins
3-burial 3mins
4-unholy 4mins shortest
6-forgotten 4mins
8-golden gates 4mins(travel time)
12-courtyard 6mins(1min wait 1min travel time 3min match 1min wait)
16-ante 4mins(that is 31minutes)
20-start of HoH ass(assuming full run
24
28
32
36-(20-36 1hour time)
40
40
40
40
40-another hour
40
40
40-(less 3-40s 36mins)
CLEARLY over 3hours assuming super SPEED run.

that means you have held for 13times in HoH, now lemme ask how many ppl saw his name 13times?
total 512fame you double it for 1k for weekend

and please dont make false statements, the fact is EVERY TIME THIS BORAT CHARACTER FACE THE FIERCE N LICIOUS, THE FIERCE PWNS HIS ASS. I always hear this lame shit from this guy(fits your character well too) "i lose cause of pugs" or "you only win cause my team are retarded." LEMMME TELL YOU SOMETHING, EVERY1 PUGS, I PUG this dead game everytime, its not possible to wait for good players to log on in this game!! This KILLED U MAN is a liar.

Otello · Aug 27, 2010, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

BBsway/iway can't use monks if they want to keep NR/Tranq.

Yes, I know. I was comparing prism with HB infuser, but of course you can not change the ritu/prism backline for monks in sway

Missing HB · Aug 27, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Balanced simply doesn't work anymore. Just because you get lucky skips to HoH, or keep facing the worst of the worst (Beating the worst bspam guild in GvG didn't mean it wasn't OP), doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the other builds, or your build is still top notch.

Once in HoH, balanced is still a strong template because of it's advantages in every playstyle (RR, KoTH and Cap Points), getting there, however, requires a large amount of luck in either hoping you skip, or you face bad teams...

You forget those 2 guilds which are very lucky , MATH and eB. When you see they keep getting their right oppos on the good map ( i.e good teams on shrines usually ) , then when you get to halls , no matter what's happening they still win ( like i saw pressing B , yellow team trying to gank them , blue team not enough smart attacking yellow , blue ends up dying , MATH caps and win )